Using Customer Insights for Better Customer Experience

Priscilla McKinney: Hello and welcome to Ponderings from the perch the little bird marketing company podcast I'm Priscilla McKinney with you as always and I have the Sandra Barksdale with me today. Okay, I'm just gonna say right now before I say a big welcome to her is that she and I were at the glass question Pro event again And we started chit chatting again. Why have why is she not been on this podcast?

I do not know it is my podcast I don't know why I haven't had her on yet, but we were having a good time and also we were riding a longhorn and full disclosure we were drinking but welcome to the show lisandra

Lasandra Barksdale: What an intro. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.

Priscilla McKinney: Yeah, it was so fun to see you there and again to get to talk a little bit shop again because you and I have some interesting overlap. I think my audience is really going to enjoy hearing your perspective. I think it kind of it's an expertise that sits adjacent to me and I you know, I know I'll learn something today too.

But if you don't know, Lissandra Barksdale, she is the founder and principal at Compass Customer Solutions and what she does there is really help companies that are service-driven to turn operational problems into advantages. Huh? Who wants one of those?

So lots of years of experience doing this in marketing, product operations, customer experience leadership. That's what we're going to talk a little bit about today. But she's worked with companies you've heard of like, you know, Amazon, Dropbox, never hear of those.

You know, and she really wants to help companies design smarter systems that really are delivering these coveted, unforgettable experiences. And I think so many owners want to know how do you do that? So let's just talk a little bit, a little bit of your origin story, Lissandra, about what inspired you to start Compass Customer Solutions, because I do think it's interesting in terms of how you chose your approach, that it wasn't just like everything else out there.

It's not like every other marketing company or every other consulting firm. So what was the impetus there?

Lasandra Barksdale: Absolutely. Yeah. I think, like when I was still in the private sector, I was definitely in the customer experience world a lot.

And I still really see that that is extremely valuable. but I think, you know, customer experience usually focuses on the front end stuff, right? Like how a customer feels.

And I think even though I'm still a customer experience consultancy, what's different about me is that I focus on the part of customer experience that most people don't see. And that's the operational side. So in my experience, most established companies, they don't have a problem with their core service.

They really have a problem with their operations or the processes behind them. And that's what quietly undermines the customer experience. that's.

Priscilla McKinney: Well, okay, well, before you go for it, because that's a big expertise you have. What does that look like? Like you just gave me the big theory when you said what they really have is this problem.

What does that look like in real life? What do mean?

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah. Yeah, would say so, you if you think about, mainly work with service-based businesses.

So those are businesses that really rely heavily on repeat customers. So financial services, healthcare, you know, businesses like that. And I really, you know, we're both marketers and I come from market research and analytics and insights background.

And so I really help customers to be able to translate that information that they're given from customers, the feedback, the complaints, the support tickets, all of that. I take that information and I really help them translate that into a clear picture of where friction is happening behind the scenes. So that's those handoffs, the fact that customers have to repeat themselves, that they've talked to three or four different agents, things like that.

That's what I really focus on. So from there, we really try to work on redesigning those handoffs and the workflows and the internal processes so their teams can really deliver an experience that customers expect on a consistent basis.

Priscilla McKinney: okay. I have a list of companies I'd like for you to call. That is like the modern annoyance, right?

Is when something goes wrong, you know, in the olden days, we would pick up a phone, you know, back when we used phones for actually calling people. And we would dial somebody and we would wait. might. had to be patient.

We oftentimes had to wait quite a bit, but we could get someone right.

Lasandra Barksdale: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Priscilla McKinney: But friction now is very anonymous. Friction is now a very alone type of a situation. So you do talk a lot about removing friction from that customer journey.

So they've decided to buy this product and something's not gone right with it. Okay, well tell me about common operational bottlenecks. What are you seeing all the time that is killing companies?

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah, I would say, you it's interesting when you just kind of gave the example of calling. I think about this as simple as going to a restaurant, right? How many of us have went to a restaurant where the food is amazing, the service or the actual server may be great, but who knows what's going on back there in the kitchen, right?

It forever for it to come out. It forever for you to get seated. All of that is that friction that we're talking about, right?

And so when you think about the operational bottlenecks, I think... Marketing tends to be doing their job by making the phone ring, which is what I say marketing's job really is. So they're driving that interest, they're driving demand, they're setting expectations.

And then oftentimes what I see is when it comes to those bottlenecks, it's usually at the handoff, right? So marketing does a good job, sales does a good job. And then as soon as it gets to delivering that experience or the operational, the things that happen behind it, that's where things tend to break down.

And so no one is really owning the customer at that point. There may be slow or confusing onboarding that's going on that really affects that great sales moment. Policies may be designed for internal efficiency that create customer frustration.

They may have tech systems that aren't speaking to each other very well. And so one team doesn't know what the other team is doing, that sort of thing. But yeah, I think.

I think we have to remember that customers really don't separate your marketing from your operations. It's, and we should either, right? It's all one experience.

So I think that's a big challenge that we often see.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, I'll tell a story that I've told many times, but it's been a long time since I've said it and it's an oldie goldie and it is my first experience with Netflix. Now I will say this, I do live pretty far out in the country kind of thing. And since I was 17, since my husband was 17 or 18, neither one of us has owned a TV in our home.

Like it's not been networked, right? And then we moved pretty remotely and yeah, we'd like to watch a movie here or there or whatever. And it's not like we hate TV, we just...

You know, we're American kids. We grew up. We've already seen enough TV for a lifetime, right?

So anyway, we we are like, well, this would be nice if we could get this idea of streaming, you know, and be able to watch things at our house without actually having a TV, a network TV. So I remember the marketing for Netflix being like, wow, this is amazing. And they would say things that were just amazing promises.

And, know, you buy this thing and it'll come to you and you'll hook it up to your invisible wireless, which I don't understand how that works, and you'll be watching, you know, a movie or a show within three minutes. And I thought, come on marketers. But I bought it.

No joke, man. That thing arrived with the most clear instructions, a beautiful box. I got it out within three minutes.

I was watching something and my husband and I looked at each other going, what just happened to us? That is non-friction. And when it happens, it's absolutely magic.

So tell me a little bit about like that to me is the holy grail of customer experience, right? But you come from a customer insights background. So in order to find these frictions, you're what combing through, you already mentioned like some, you know, ticket support, ticket stuff, but what are you seeing really as a customer, as a, as an insights professional, very trained in how to read these types of open-end experiences, how are you helping people understand where that experience is out of alignment?

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah, I think, you know, like we talked about, this is the one of first things I do is we have to look at the data, right? Discovery is so important in any process. And so looking at people don't even realize how much of a goldmine their online customer reviews are.

It's a goldmine to really understand what your customers are willing to say publicly about you. Sometimes, you know, there might be some one-offs that you don't need to pay too much attention to, but that any feedback systems or loops that you have installed in your business, customer surveys, those support tickets, and sometimes just talking to your frontline team or your sales team, just what are they hearing from customers, right? What are their challenges they're having?

So being able to take that data and recognize where there are patterns, and then it would be able to focus on that to make those changes. I think that's where the key really is. You know, what you're talking about, you know, if you, nobody would probably hear what you described and say that that was necessarily what people perceive as an unforgettable experience, but it really is, right?

You're talking about this. How long ago was that experience?

Priscilla McKinney: Like 15 years ago.

Lasandra Barksdale: It wasn't about some big grand gesture that the company did. It was really just about being thoughtful. They were just really making sure that the experience was streamlined, that it was simple for you, and it kind of gave you peace of mind to being able to use their product.

And that is what I feel like an unforgettable experience is really all

Priscilla McKinney: Well, Lissandra, directly to that point, it's that the company's promise to me was that I would be able to do it. It would work. And they made good on the promise.

They didn't do more than what they said. They just did exactly what they said. Do you feel like, you know, like there's some just unrealistic expectations out there or what do you think's really going on with, you know, customer, customer evaluation of a customer of a company?

Lasandra Barksdale: I think it is somewhat challenging right now because I kind of consider it to be customer experience is kind of fluid a bit right now, mainly because it's not even just your industry that you have to worry about. You have to worry about customers' experiences with other companies as well. Take for example, Amazon, right?

Love or hate them, right? But most of us have some kind of experience with Amazon in a way of having things delivered. But as soon as they start delivering things, I don't know about in your area, but the fact that Amazon can deliver something to me same day, that sets a pretty high bar for what I can expect from other e-commerce companies, right?

As far as how quickly I can have these things delivered to me. So I think companies really need to focus on what they're promising their customers. What is your brand promise to your customer?

What are you saying that customers can expect when they do business with you and making sure you live up to that promise? in every aspect of your business.

Priscilla McKinney: That is so true that there's cross-pollination, there's bleeding going on. It's like, if I have this amazing experience in an Uber, I expect that the next time I'm picking out socks. I mean, they're not related, but my gosh, you just absolutely want, you you get used to things.

And you're right, Amazon has ruined us with delivery. And I mentioned, I live very remotely. I still get things the next day.

And I seriously tell my husband, I'm like, how? How did they get this object here? Like we live on Route 66 in the middle of the US.

I don't even understand it. And there's no way that they're like, you know, actually building it in, you know, like a 3D printing it. So somehow this object got to my house.

So kind of tell me a little bit about the, I think it's a little bit more American, American psyche now, because listen, I grew up in Europe and when I'm over in Europe, you cannot return something. I'll tell you that straight up. If you move there, you cannot return something.

If you bought it, it is yours, right? But in the US, that is almost like a constitutional right. I have the right to be able to return this to you.

So tell me a little bit about that environment, because I think brands are pretty hard pressed on that.

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah, I agree. think they are. It's definitely something that we have to just be aware of.

But I also want to make sure a caution, you know, I'm not at all suggesting that companies try to go and copy the Amazon model, right? That's not what I'm saying at all. But what is it for you?

Like, what is it that you're doing to create this special experience for your customers and help them understand that you care and that you're thinking about it? I think one of the most important things that we have to do is not to focus on just doing more, but about making sure first that you understand exactly what the customer actually came for. Why are they even engaging with you in your business?

What is their goal? What are they trying to achieve? And then from that, can actually, if you start from that lens, then you can absolutely create an experience that outside of their experiences with their companies can probably still set you apart from some of those other companies.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, I love that. Okay, give some just practical advice. You know, you talked about feedback about support tickets You know, are there other hidden places that people have data?

They don't think to go look or they're not you know, they're they've got it They're sitting on it, but they're they're not really evaluating it

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah, I think a lot of times, especially, depending on the kind of product or the service that you have, if you can look at the actual data of how people are using your product or your system, you can generally see where people are having challenges. Where are people spending a little bit too much time somewhere? Especially when I talk to companies who have a support team, they kind of talk to me about how do we reduce calls?

And it's kind of difficult for them to understand when I say that is not a customer experience strategy, it's call reduction. That is not a customer experience strategy. Ideally, your customer doesn't want to have to call it all.

So that should be the focus.

Priscilla McKinney: my gosh, that is such a mic drop. It's like, why are we fixated on reducing calls? Why don't we just make the product work?

Lasandra Barksdale: Exactly, just make it to where they don't have to call you at all. That should be the goal. Forget your IVR, forget all of that.

mean, those things are valuable and important. But if I don't have to call it all, I'm in love. I'll share an experience like you said with Netflix, going back to the Amazon, not trying to give too much credence to Amazon here.

But when I ordered a movie from Amazon, and I noticed it was maybe a little fuzzy. But it was fine for me to watch. I watched the movie and then maybe the next day I got an email from Amazon that said, hey, we know you rented a movie.

And it was kind of, you know, the quality wasn't up to our standards. So we're going to refund you your money. I didn't have to call, right?

They did it for me because there's a of things customers don't even call about. So it's all that little friction that it didn't make them stop wanting to your service in the beginning, but they realized it makes them harder for them to do business with you. And so...

More enough of those will make them leave you all altogether.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, I love it. Okay. I really appreciate you coming on and as a thank you I still have another question but as a thank you I just want to kind of clarify what kinds of companies do you work with like who should call you if they're like do I have a problem or my gosh we know we have a problem but I didn't even consider that it was operational issues so you know who should be calling you

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah, I think if they feel like they do have a customer experience issue, like the customers are telling them that through their complaints, through some subpar online reviews, through their team members saying, you know, even if your team is frustrated by what they're having to do internally with their processes, that's usually a pretty good indicator that you're having a problem that may be more about service design instead of your core service.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, I love that, I love that. Okay, I wanted to ask you this last question. You and I talked briefly about this.

It's something that really sets you apart and I'd love to hear a little bit about it, but you're also a FUSE, F-U-S-E, executive fellow. So tell me what that is and how that helps you applying customer experience principles for real impact.

Lasandra Barksdale: Yeah, yeah. So Fuse is actually a national nonprofit that embeds private sector executives into local governments. So for one specific initiative.

So I'm working with the city of Austin. I live in Austin, Texas. And I'm working with the city's housing department to look at their housing programs and to be able to design or redesign them to help create advanced economic mobility for the residents.

So this is something that's very personal to me. I'm very passionate about financial literacy. and being able to help people improve their financial situation.

And so I think everything that I've learned in my career, I think it's really been helpful, even though I'm new to the public sector. But I think something that is slightly different is the stakes are so much higher when it comes to the public sector, right? Because instead of just trying to delight customers, which a lot of companies do, then these these residents are often facing stress, uncertainty, and vulnerability.

And so there's a different spin, a different lens you have to look at it from because of that. And so I apply the same principles though. I'm listening deeply to residents, listening to their lived experiences.

I'm still mapping out how these systems actually work and not how they're supposed to, but how they actually work, how people are experiencing them. And then I'm really making recommendations on how to reduce that friction. to remove some of the barriers to access to some of these housing programs, how they communicate about the programs and how they communicate with the residents, and then the follow through.

And so I think an unforgettable experience, something that I'm taking from this experience is how an unforgettable experience in the public sector isn't as much about the light as much as it is about dignity, making sure these people feel seen, understood, and supported. So yeah, I think, like I said, it's very valuable work. I'm really excited about the work we're doing for the city of Austin and Austinites.

And yeah, I think it's really meaningful.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, well you're keeping it excellent along with while they're all keeping it weird. So, I love that. my gosh.

I just, what, what an a fantastic idea to bring this expertise because this is something that impacts day to day quality of life. And it impacts, you know, you think about like, how do communities really grow? And if I think about Austin, there must have been a lot of friction because of the massive growth.

That happened and that expansion and then covid and then some companies leaving and a massive, you know, reduction again, I mean Not all cities really went through what austin has gone through in the the last decade I would say, know from tech boom to to you know little pockets of bust and so I you know, I and yet it's so many people love it and it's a highly, you know sought after place to move to so Yeah, I love that idea of really bringing that idea of, you know, excellence and lack of friction in the things that we do every day. That is very cool, Lissandra. Okay, well, thank you so much for joining us.

This has been fun. I hope that I catch you somewhere else and not just in Austin, but I have to say that was a real blast. Awesome.

From all the peeps here at Little Bird Marketing, have a great day and happy marketing.