The American Society of Trial Consultants: 2025 Conference Flyover

Priscilla McKinney: Hello and welcome to Ponderings from the Perch, the Little Bird Marketing Company podcast. Today, you're gonna hear Stephanie Douglas, our CRO, and me, Priscilla McKinney, at the 2025 Annual Conference for the American Society of Trial Consultants. Their theme this year is, Elevate Your Practice and Enhance the Justice System. We're here in Stephanie Douglas' home turf of New Orleans. So you're gonna get to hear a little bit about what they put together from their special sessions and their notable guests.

Their topics include how to build a dream team, teaming with the judiciary to design best practices for exploring bias and jury selection, venue composition challenges, future involvement in mediation, health and wellness issues, an AI panel, and graphics workshops, just to name a few. You're gonna hear from people who attended, some for the first time and some for many years. Enjoy the show.

Anthony Legion, so nice to have you on the podcast.

In my opinion, you have the most uniquely harrowing journey that brought you to this conference, but the theme is elevate your practice and enhance the justice system. So tell me why you came, what it was that you were looking to get out of this conference.

Anthony Legion: Number one, the conference is very informative. I'm learning a lot about jury consultations, trial strategies, and things of that nature. We're from Detroit, Michigan, the organization of exonerees, which is a bunch of individuals who was wrongfully convicted. Myself, I served 19 years and 10 months in prison for a crime I didn't commit. And so now we go across the world bringing awareness and advocating for others similarly situated.

And so I came to the conference to see if it was something that we could get and bring to our organization. And they do a lot of pro bono work or they trying to get off into pro bono work. And a lot of our cases, we need jury consultants. We need trial consultants because if I'm just being honest, a lot of our trials, basically all of our trials, we didn't have a juror consultant. And I think the trial, you either lose or win a case in the jury selection process.

And so we didn't have that. And so we want to make sure that we can bring that to Detroit or across the globe for others wrongfully convicted. So it won't happen. And we believe that even moving forward, even after a lot of individuals get out of prison from serving a wrongful conviction, oftentimes they have to go through civil litigation to get their compensation. And so we believe that it would be very instrumental to help in that regard as well.

Priscilla McKinney: What is interesting to me is the level of detail of expertise needed at every step of the jury selection and the whole process of the trial from how to showcase the evidence, the voir dire and on and on. I'm curious if there's anything that has surprised you that you've heard while you've been here.

Anthony Legion: To be specific, mean, jury consultants, it's unheard of where we're from. And so just seeing how meticulous they are and how deep in their research that they go and look at these jurors, potential jurors, and I think that's very informative. Number one, it creates a possible appealable issue. If in fact you get a juror that's on your panel who says something in court and he or she is really contrary to that in person.

And so you can use that as an appealable issue or just to prevent that jury from getting on your panel. You know what saying? Some things may be exposed that you don't even want that jury on it. So most trial attorneys don't have that. They don't have that gift. You know what saying? That the consultant is particular in looking at jurors and most attorneys, they just go for the trial. They go for the opening statement, closing argument, cross examinations, and they're not that thorough with the jury selection process.

Priscilla McKinney: Awesome. So on a lighter note, tell me what do you love about New Orleans?

Anthony Legion: I love New Orleans. I love the people. I love the catfish. I love it. It's a town that never goes to sleep. You wake up in the morning and it's like it was last night. So I like it. Actually, we're going to get out tonight.

Priscilla McKinney: Well, thank you, Anthony.

We're here with Molly Outland, an Associate Trial Consultant with Laird Trial Consulting.

Molly, tell me a little bit about what you're hoping to get out of the conference today.

Molly Outland: So this is my first in-person conference. I was able to go to the virtual one a couple of years ago. So really excited to meet everyone in person finally. I've already gotten so much out of the conference. The presentations have been awesome. The panels have been super informative. I've been really interested in, of course, making connections with people that are more experienced in the field, as well as people that are newer to the field like myself. And it's been great networking, meeting everyone that I've seen online for a couple of years, seeing their posts on LinkedIn. And I've just really hoped to learn more about pressing issues within the trial consulting field. I'm really excited for the AI panel tomorrow. And I'm then getting a lot of information about communication styles and persuasion. The CLE presentation was great yesterday.

Priscilla McKinney: AI presentation, the CLE presentation, and then we have a whole another half day left. Now tell me a little bit about New Orleans and your favorite part so far.

Molly Outland: So the food, of course, is amazing. My husband is actually from Louisiana and he's joining tomorrow. So I'm really excited to get to explore the city with him and the rest of my coworkers and just the vibes, the music, the food, of course. And it's just a great city already. I have only been out a couple of times, but it's been really exciting to see everything.

Priscilla McKinney: Thank you so much. I'm with Allie Robertson who is a psychology student from the University of Georgia. So Allie, coming to ASTC, what were you most excited about learning? About everything.

Allie Robertson: I was so excited just to learn about like everything honestly. Like I had never really gotten into trial consulting before I joined this membership and everything like that. So it was really nice to just meet people, talk about what they do and everything like that. I love psychology and law, so having that mixture of it is just, it's like the perfect blend for me. So I've, that's what's drawn to me.

Priscilla McKinney: And so so far, have you gotten anything specific out that's been really interesting?

Allie Robertson: I have honestly just been taking notes of everything and I really loved talking about just recently about being the neutral parting and like sort of not winning or losing anything because it's not a win or loss, but just learning about that you need to sort of be the neutral psychological person there.

Priscilla McKinney: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So is this your first time in New Orleans?

Allie Robertson: It is. It's my first time in New Orleans. Yeah, I've never been, so I've traveled up here.

Stephanie Douglas: Okay, so what is your favorite thing so far or what are you most looking forward to?

Allie Robertson: I am honestly most looking forward to just the nightlife. I wasn't able to experience it last night, but I really am excited to tonight just to see everything.

Stephanie Douglas: What's the plan? Is it bourbon? I don't know about that.

Allie Robertson: Maybe. I don't know. We'll see what the night holds.

Stephanie Douglas: Thank you. I'm here with Claudia Varner. She is a litigation paralegal and also a forensic psychology graduate student. We've had a few sessions already, Claudia. Tell me a little bit about what you think of what we've heard so far.

Claudia Varner: It's incredible time of conference and I think seeing the panelists and hearing what they have to say, just for my goals of going into this career and it's the exact right time and it's really inspiring to listen to all the backgrounds that people have come from, the differences they've made in the industry, and like where they are now and I hope to be, you know, where they are in 20, 30, 40 years and still be speaking here maybe one day, which is awesome.

Stephanie Douglas: And so what are you most excited about or most interested in learning about?

Claudia Varner: I'm most interested in kind of seeing where the field goes in terms of identity bias and how in like this world we're in, how jury consultants play a role in that. So it's fascinating to see all the speakers that have been at this conference.

Stephanie Douglas: Awesome! Thank you guys!

Claudia Varner: Thank you.

Priscilla McKinney: We have Colin Piazza here, founder and CEO of Social Sleuth. It's my understanding that you were a little bit responsible of putting together some of this wonderful content for this conference. So how are you finding the conference so far?

Colin Piazza: It's going really good. I've enjoyed this year. I came last year. I think we have more people coming out this year, a lot of engagement and good presentations. And I think everyone's having a good time.

Priscilla McKinney: What have you been talking about with your colleagues? What's been of interest to you?

Colin Piazza: I kind of helped with some of the planning so I'm not gonna have like a valid like fresh opinion for you but...

Priscilla McKinney: What are you hearing people excited about? What's the murmur about the content?

Colin Piazza: There's lot of development right now in the industry with, they were talking about social media and the media with the high profile trials. So that was a focus of conversation and then AI, which we're talking about tomorrow. That's a big piece of the puzzle as well.

Priscilla McKinney: Awesome. And then is there anything specific about New Orleans you're excited about or that you've loved so far?

Colin Piazza: Yeah, I mean, this is my first time here. It's really neat. Like the, the history of the city and the food I think is really unique. Hospitality, everyone's been like so friendly, not just in the hotel, but different restaurants and stuff like that. And yeah, it's been a nice spot to visit.

Priscilla McKinney: Awesome, thank you Colin.

Stephanie Douglas: I'm here with Jacob Rolls, a trial consultant at ASTC. Jacob, tell me a little bit about what you're expecting to get out of the conference today.

Jacob Rolls: I kind of want to see how everyone does their job here. I'm new to the trial consulting field and I've been attached to it for not very long because my father was a trial consultant and I'm not quite sure what I'm doing about doing their job as trial consultants. I'm a little bit concerned about whatever is doing, how they're, how they go about doing their job as trial consultants.

Stephanie Douglas: Is there any buzzy topic that you're super interested in?

Jacob Rolls: A lot of the stuff that's been covered in the house has been very interesting. The one that we just heard on profile case management with a sense, I've been attached to it for long time. A.I. is interesting to me. Social media. It's fascinating.

Stephanie Douglas: Awesome. And then how are you finding New Orleans?

Jacob Rolls: Love it. Every time I leave, I shed a tear.

Stephanie Douglas: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Next up we have Patty Kuehn from Kuehn Trial Consultants. So tell me what you're learning here at ASTC.

Patty Kuehn: I really enjoy learning about the recent research that comes out. Of course, being a member for over 30 years, I love seeing professional colleagues collaborating and moving forward as both a professional industry.

Stephanie Douglas: Is there a specific topic you've seen on the agenda or something that's really hit you as interesting?

Patty Kuehn: I'm on the AI task force and the privilege and clinging on ideas and what's happening in their practices and presenting tomorrow on that. I see that as having significant implications in the future for industry. So learning how to use it as a tool is critically important. And with the other programs that have happened today, in particular with the judges discussing voir dire. I do a lot of jury selection. So voir dire is pretty important.

Stephanie Douglas: And then what has been your favorite thing about New Orleans?

Patty Kuehn: I went for a walk at the River Walk this morning and so I have very much enjoyed that, but how can you come to New Orleans and not enjoy the food? It's great.

Stephanie Douglas: Thank you so much.

Patty Kuehn: You're welcome.

Stephanie Douglas: We have John Si here with SF Research Space. So, John, what were you looking to get out of this conference?

John Si: ASTC is great for us to connect with all of the people in this trial consulting field. We were here last year as well. Last year was the first year. We just wanted to come and meet people and introduce our space in San Francisco. We've got a brand new state of the art modern facility in San Francisco. We can do up to five deliberation panels, up to 70 respondents with like the latest 4K cameras and technology and all that. So really just wanted to introduce this new capability that's in San Francisco.

Stephanie Douglas: What do you find people are really most interested in when they're out here talking to vendors? Is there something specific people are looking for?

John Si: No, they're just hearing that there's a space now outside of just hotels. People are just doing things at hotels now, which are very expensive and not a great setup and all that. So they're pretty excited to hear that there's something back in San Francisco now.

Stephanie Douglas: Have you been to New Orleans before?

John Si: I have, but that was a few years ago for a bachelor slash bachelorette party and there was a lot of alcohol involved. So I don't remember much of it. This time I'm here and able to experience the great food, the great people. So it's been fantastic. Food is amazing.

Stephanie Douglas: Awesome, that's definitely something I'm hearing. Well, John, thank you so much.

John Si: Yeah, you're welcome.

Stephanie Douglas: Patrick Ryan, welcome to the show. So tell me something, is this your first ASTC conference or have you been here many times?

Patrick Ryan: Second.

Stephanie Douglas: Second. Okay. And so tell me a little bit about what you were hoping to get out of this conference this year.

Patrick Ryan: Just beat folks up. I'm a big user of mock trial services. Our firm also has a trial facility and its building.

Stephanie Douglas: Awesome. Is there anything specific, like some topic that you were interested in hearing more about?

Patrick Ryan: Cutting edge technology. AI is being leveraged to drive better research projects.

Stephanie Douglas: Great. And then a little fun question about New Orleans. First time, many time visitor, what are you excited about?

Patrick Ryan: Second time I was here 52 years ago with my parents. They took me to the same restaurant. Yes, and had the big Alaska.

Stephanie Douglas: Of course. You have to. Yes. Great. It was great to meet you and talk to you, Patrick. Appreciate it.

Priscilla McKinney: I'm here at the ASTC with Samantha Weiner and we're just talking about ASTC. Would love to know Samantha, coming to ASTC, what are you hoping to get out of it?

Samantha Weiner: Yeah, so I'm pretty new to trial consulting, so my goal for this weekend is to just learn about all the opportunities and what different people are doing here and what I can do next.

Priscilla McKinney: Are there any specific topics that you were more excited about hearing about?

Samantha Weiner: Yeah, the last panel we just heard from was really interesting about two judges and talking about the potential of jury interviews, questionnaires of four cases, I think is really interesting. Nothing that I'm familiar with. And I think I have some background in social science research, so a lot of really exciting things potentially to do there.

Priscilla McKinney: That's awesome. And then a little fun question. Is this your first time in New Orleans?

Samantha Weiner: It is my first time in New Orleans, yeah.

Priscilla McKinney: So tell me about anything you've been excited about with the city.

Samantha Weiner: The beignet. I have to say the best part. I'm sure you'll hear that all morning.

Priscilla McKinney: Yup, beignets are number one. All right, well thank you Samantha, appreciate it.

Samantha Weiner: Yeah, thank you.

Priscilla McKinney: Next up, we're going to talk with Kyle Leffler. He is a Laboratory Associate at New York University, a psychology and law researcher, and a social justice advocate.

So Kyle, tell me a little bit about what you were hoping to get out of this conference.

Kyle Leffler: So I wanted to share the research I've been doing for the past two years and also four years. I've kind of had a dual role in two different labs. I also wanted to kind of figure out if trial consulting is a field that I want to pursue. Now I just finished my masters on Friday, so this was kind of my chance to, thank you, look into a possible career. I met with some great people. We just had the LinkedIn lunch and I have a few business cards now and some job opportunity leads that I can follow up on. So it's been very productive so far.

Priscilla McKinney: So what do you love about trial consulting or what is your interest, your specific interest?

Kyle Leffler: So I am leaving academia and for the past six years I've been planning on staying in academia, but current administration things aren't going away where a career in academia is particularly productive and long-term. So I wanted to look for somewhere where I could apply the research that I've been doing and kind of make it feel like that kind of my life for the past four years has had some purpose. Trial consulting is you get to apply your psychology. You get to apply, I've been working on a decision-making model, which I think will be perfect for guilty not guilty decisions in terms of jury contexts. So I'm just excited to be able to find work where I can apply what I've been doing.

Priscilla McKinney: That's fascinating to me. Now tell me about New Orleans. Is this your first time? Have you been here before? What do you love?

Kyle Leffler: So this is my first time. I've been sampling all the food. I had alligator yesterday, which was delicious. Very good. I've been seeing the slice. I've been trying to find some jazz. I play the trumpet. So I'm trying to fit that in before we go. I actually have Saturday and Saturday afternoon booked off to go and hit Bourbon Street and for the French Quarter a little more. But it's been great so far. I'm staying not at the conference hotel, but around the corner. And it's great walking over every morning. It's a little humid. I'm from New York, so I'm a little used to the humidity, but not this early in the year.

Priscilla McKinney: Tastes like chicken, right?

Kyle Leffler: Yeah!

Priscilla McKinney: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

Kyle Leffler: Thank you.

Priscilla McKinney: Thanks from all the peeps at Little Bird Marketing here in New Orleans. Have a great day and happy marketing.